GOOD ENERGY, THEN FIREWORKS: We have to be able to talk about this

Rachel Lewis Hillburn
7 days ago
18 min read

Audio interview with JJ Street and Rachel Lewis Hilburn. Art by Linda Flynn and music by Mark Herbert.

Full audio transcript:

The small, seaside city of Southport, North Carolina is now part of a terrible club; one it never expected to join. It was the site of one of 2025’s mass shootings in America. As of late October, we’ve tallied more than 350.

So what’s a mass shooting? There’s no official definition, although The Congressional Research Service says it’s a shooting in which four or more people are shot and killed – excluding gang-related and profit-motivated killings. One study’s author from CRS even calls that a “somewhat arbitrary threshold.” Other sources use a three-fatality metric.

But multiple researchers, including those at CRS, acknowledge the victim count is even harder to grasp. In a 2024 study, they write, “using fatalities as a necessary condition to define mass shootings does not capture all of the injuries that first responders must react to and for which they have to prepare.” And that only addresses the quantifiable physical harm.

So how do we define who’s a victim?

JJ Street.

And I’m Rachel Lewis Hilburn.

JJ: I play the drums.

I actually play with a lot of bands in town. It's one way to stay busy here 'cause there's lots of opportunity to play music.

So, I play in bands that do all different styles. Rock, blues, r and b, reggae, country, um, which is really fun and it keeps me on my toes. <laugh>.

RLH: What's your favorite genre?

JJ: Uh, for me it's funky stuff. I love old school music, James Brown, Tower of Power, Earth, Wind, and Fire -- horn bands from the seventies. That's all my favorite stuff.

JJ was playing drums at American Fish Company the same night a military veteran, well known to local law enforcement and believed to struggle with PTSD and traumatic brain injury, allegedly opened fire from a boat into the Southport waterfront bar, murdering three people and physically injuring at least eight.

JJ: So this was actually, um, my first time playing at American Fish Company. Um, there was another band scheduled that night to play, and they ended up not being able to play, which is how the band that I was playing with ended up with the gig. So that's a little bit crazy <laugh>.

If you don’t know Southport, it’s a small tourist town that sits at the convergence of the Cape Fear River and the Atlantic Ocean. Three years ago, it was named Happiest Seaside Town by Coastal Living. Its year-round population is less than five-thousand people.

JJ: It was a beautiful night and we were excited to play. The first half of the show was going really well. We had a nice crowd. We were set up out on the deck on the water. There was a hurricane coming in at the time, so we weren't even sure if we were gonna be able to play that night, but it turned and so the weather held off and, it ended up being really nice. And so we played for a while. Everybody was having a good time and then we took a break and I remember talking to the staff members there and they were having a great time and were loving it. It was just a really good energy. I even texted my wife on the break and said, it's going so well. Um…

JJ: So we started, so we started the second set and we were in the middle of a song and there was loud popping. And, um, at first, I didn't even know what it was. I thought it was fireworks. And, um, after two or three loud cracks, I thought, what is somebody doing setting off fireworks in the middle of our show? And I was getting irritated and it wasn't until the fourth one that I realized something was wrong because I felt something hit me.

Lucky for me it was just some debris. But, um, the chaos began. It was a nightmare. So, we all got down on the deck, trying to stay low. And a couple of us crawled out of the bar just to get out of harm's way into the back -- the street area.

But the chaos continued until emergency services started to arrive and try to get control of the scene. It was just mayhem and, they all did a really good job. They came in and gave help to the people that needed help and helped organize everybody else to secure the scene and make sure that we were all taken care of and then get our information and whatnot that they had to do -- to do their jobs. But, um…

There are some major details we’ve agreed to omit. One example: the name of JJ’s band. The reasons behind the omissions boil down to the purpose of this conversation: we’re not mining as-yet-unpublished accounts of the tragedy for newly grotesque or shocking or even informational details. There’s enough out there. We’re exploring something more human, the part often forgotten, devalued, repressed.

JJ: It ended up being a really long night because I had left my keys and my wallet at the drum set, and then it was a crime scene. It was locked down, so I couldn't get back in and I couldn't go home.

I talked to multiple people trying to get my keys back. I said, I understand we can't go in, but I can't go home. Finally, there was somebody from the State Bureau of Investigation. They were really great and super supportive and she was able to talk to someone and get inside and get my stuff for me. So, it ended up being a really late night and, um, didn't get much sleep that night. It was a nightmare.

The mass shooting happened the night of September 27th. By the time we talk, October 10th, almost two weeks have passed.

TALKING, JOURNALING THROUGH FLASHBACKS AND ALMOST UNBEARABLE SADNESS

RLH: How often do you talk about this with your wife? How often does this come up?

JJ: It comes up every day. The, the first week it was nonstop. It was really all I could think about. She's been amazing. She's a great support. I have a lot of friends that have been fantastic. And that's the only way to get through it. You have to have a support system. And so, I feel really lucky that I have her and everybody else in my corner.

Talking about it has helped a lot. It's now almost two weeks later and it's starting to feel a little bit more like a bad dream and less real, almost like a movie, when I tell the story. It was like a bad movie that I watched. Not something that I even experienced myself, but I've been journaling a lot. That's been helping just to get all my thoughts out there, because your mind races.

I have a good friend who's a therapist and gave me great advice and told me, your mind will go down rabbit holes and swirl around all these different things. You'll flashback and relive it and try to make sense of it, but there is no making sense of it. You just have to let your mind do what it's doing and then move on from it, put it aside. And so I've been trying really hard to do that -- you know, give my mind space to process what it can, but then somehow move on and be functional at the same time.

RLH: When you find yourself kind of reliving it, do you also find yourself trying to tell a different story? How does your mind try to process that?

JJ: Uh, it can be different sometimes. I think it's weird because we all hear these stories all the time and picture how we would respond in the moment.

And sometimes you like to play these hero fantasies that if you were in that moment you would try to do something. But the fact is you have no idea how you would respond and it's so fast and so chaotic you really have no idea what's going on and what to do. Um, and it's tough to deal with that guilt -- of being a bystander when something horrible is happening, even though it's not your fault.

And other times I think back and there's anger. I'm so angry at the shooter. And then other times it's relief that myself and my friends walked away safely. And of course, a ton of sadness when I picture the images in my mind. It's almost unbearable.

RLH: Yeah. Yeah.

JJ: It's just so sad.

RLH: That hero fantasy you talk about -- I think we've all had that. We all think about it with fictional scenarios first.

JJ: Yeah.

RLH: And you're right. You have no idea what your body, your mind is actually gonna do in that moment.

JJ: Yeah.

RLH: But are you saying that you're going through some self-recrimination for not having done something differently?

JJ: I know there's no way I could have done something differently. Honestly, if I objectively stand back and look at the situation, I know it's not my fault and there's nothing I could have done. But it's impossible not to relive all those moments and think, what could I have done? Is there something I could have done? Just to question, I guess. I don't know. It's just something your mind does as you're reliving it, trying to make sense of it.

RLH: Right. It sounds like you're very aware of what your mind is doing. Like you're letting it do what it's gonna do without necessarily a lot of judgment about that.

JJ: I'm trying. Yeah. I mean, I'm no expert so I rely on this advice of others that do know more than I do. And again, the support of the people around me, giving me the space to feel how I'm feeling and do what I need to do to get through it.

CONCENTRIC CIRCLES: “IT AFFECTS ALL OF US.”

JJ: And it affects them too. I mean, my wife has been amazing, but she's also struggling. One thing that we talked about a lot in the beginning were the circles from the center of this event outward and it affected all of us that were there so personally, but it also affected our loved ones. I mean, it was really hard on her, but also our family and friends that care about us, it affected other people in the music community and the bar and restaurant community. Because they all realized how close to home it was. It could have been them.

I had so many people reach out. Some people I don't even know well. And they were all just deeply affected by it. And so those are the ripples and it goes way further than just the people in the room. It affects all of us.

RLH: Yeah. So you're talking about these circles of trauma, like it's, it's you guys who were there and it's the victims and it's everybody who was immediately affected. And then these, these concentric circles that just continue.

JJ: I compare it to, like, invisible shots that went out and they just keep traveling. They don't stop. I had people reach out to me from all over the country when they heard about it 'cause these stories travel fast and within hours I had so many messages I had to shut off my phone. And that was amazing to have that support. Everybody was so great. But it's overwhelming. It's just, you realize how this is affecting all of us all the time, but then it hits home when it's somebody you know.

THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE DONE.

RLH: Yeah. And I've had conversations recently with people who say that our culture has become desensitized to this in a way. Like the same day that that happened, there was another mass shooting in Michigan.

JJ: Mm-hmm.

RLH: And I think there may have been a third one…

JJ: There was.

RLH: …that same day.

JJ: Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

RLH: Or that same weekend.

The final tally, by the way, is far higher. Saturday, September 27th, 2025 saw a total of four mass shootings, two in North Carolina, one in Michigan, and one in Louisiana. Sunday, September 28th, four more mass shootings in Michigan, Louisiana, and Alabama. Ten people killed and thirty-five hurt in eight mass shootings over the weekend. One Saturday and one Sunday in America.

RLH: And so when you don't know people who are involved, I mean, what's the difference now when you hear about another mass shooting? Because they've happened since. What’s your sensitivity to that? I know you and your wife are very sensitive, kind, community oriented, responsible, giving people. But we all, for our own sanity at a certain point, have to just step back and go, oh yeah, that's just a shame about what happened in Michigan and then move on. So how do you think about that now? Has this changed you?

JJ: It has. I thought about that a lot because we all slip into this cynicism of what are you gonna do? This is just the world we live in now. There's nothing I can do about it. Nobody else is willing to do anything about it. So nothing can be done. And a lot of people I've talked to even said that in the wake of this event, like, oh that's horrible, but what are you gonna do?

And you know, my friend who's a therapist had really wise words about that. He said, we can't just give in to cynicism and accept that this is the way it is and there's nothing to be done about it because then what are we doing here? And so I really took that to heart and try to live that as I'm processing it. And as the events the same day happened, um, it is different because it did hit home and now I don't have the luxury of just sitting with my coffee and saying, you know, boy, that's sad news for them. That's too bad. It does hit home more. And I think there is something to be done about it. That's, I guess, the big difference as I've been processing over the last two weeks is realizing we can do something. We're just not doing it.

RLH: What, tell me, what can we do?

JJ: I think we get too lost in the weeds. People drill down into all the different pieces of this issue. Whether you want to talk about mental health care, you want to talk about the politics of it and gun control. All of those things are part of it. It's a big soup that's creating the issue. So, you know, if I tell you that, you know, we need more or better mental health services for people and we do, other people might say, well that's not gonna do any good because somebody with this particular individual raised a red flag in the past about him being a potential danger and nobody did anything 'cause he hadn't done anything yet. There was nothing they could do and their hands were tied. Or you can make the case about gun control. And then someone who's a gun enthusiast will say, the guns don't kill people. People kill people. But it's people with guns killing people.

So could we do something -- like just try it? And we did it with cars, right? We invented cars and then they realized, oh well, these are kind of dangerous. We need some regulations. So let's have a speed limit. Let's make you take a test and get a license. Let's put it in a seatbelt and make you wear it. And people went along with that. You may not like it, but you do it.

RLH: So if you were king of the world and you didn't have to build consensus or get a bill passed, what would be your first move?

JJ: I think it has to start with mental health help for people because we have a big crisis in human connection right now. We live in a time where we spend so much time alone or on our phones or in front of a screen. And even if it's interacting with people, it's not real interaction. I think when you lose that human connection, these types of things are more likely to happen because it's no longer a person you're looking at if you're disconnected for this person. And I know he has a history and you can make all these cases about what happened to him in his past that brought him to that moment.

But lots of other people went through those same things and didn't shoot anyone.

So what is it for this guy? Did you know? Is there anything anybody could have done? And it sounds like maybe some of his friends and neighbors tried, but somebody to make a connection with this person so they didn't feel like their only option was mass murder.

I don't know what the answer is to that, but I think people need more face-to-face human connection so that we realize that we're all connected and it's not us versus them. And it's not red and blue and politics and all of that stuff. We're all humans and we're all connected. And once you know that, you start from that space, we can work out all the other stuff. But I don't know what — I don't think there's a magic pill to fix it. I think we gotta attack all these things all at the same time and not get so lost in the weeds that we give up and say, well it's too complicated. There's no easy fix.

RLH: Well, let me ask you about a weed. Are you a gun owner yourself?

JJ: No, but I don't have anything against guns. And I have friends that own guns and I've shot guns. I'm not anti-gun. But I do think there's a common-sense element that comes into play with the issue where you can all step back and say, if we put in a little bit stricter rules, would it maybe prevent some of these horrible tragedies? It's not gonna solve the problem, but would it help? Like wouldn't that be worth a shot just to try it?

But we can't even have the conversation. That's the frustrating thing. Like we can work out the details if we could just come to the table, but people won't even talk about it. It's just like, hands off, can't even touch that issue.

RLH: Tell me about how you're consuming or not consuming the news coverage around this.

JJ: It's very limited and I don't consume a lot of news to begin with because I find it really hard to absorb day to day. I think it's also contributing to some of the mental health issues we have when people are home in this echo chamber getting crazy ideas off social media or wherever it is. And it's just getting amplified over and over. So for me, if I hear about something or want to know what's happening, I try to go seek out responsible outlets where I know it's as neutral as possible to get information. And with this issue, like I'm just not at the point yet where I'm ready to absorb any of the information. I just can't.

RLH: You mentioned earlier in our conversation that you feel anger sometimes when you think about the perpetrator, the alleged perpetrator. Of course, he's going to have a probable cause hearing after you and I have talked. But when you think about him, how do you think about him? Do you have different feelings about him or is it just understandable rage right now?

JJ: No, it's a, a lot of feelings. There is a lot of rage because there's no way of making sense of what he did. I just, I can't, there's just no excuse for it. But I do have sympathy hearing the little bit that I have heard about his past. And whenever you're dealing with someone that had any kind of trauma, whether it was abuse or a brain injury or whatever his story is, you have to have a little bit of sympathy because he's not fully responsible for the state that he was in, but he is responsible for his actions. I can't give him a pass on that because I mean, it's permanent what he did.

RLH: Yeah. Do you have thoughts about what should happen with him? I mean, obviously the district attorney has said that the death penalty is on the table. Do you have an opinion on that?

JJ: I struggle with the death penalty because there are cases where I feel like it's warranted. But if I zoom out in a perfect world, I feel like we have to have better solutions than that. But then you think about someone who, you know, rehabilitation is not likely, well then what are you doing imprisoning them? If they're not gonna be able to be able to contribute to society in a healthy, positive way, well then what are we doing? I don't know. It's a really complicated issue. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

RLH: If you could fast forward in time 10 years, what would you like to see happen as a result of this? Is there anything positive now that can come of it?

JJ: You have to try to find a way forward that is positive. Um, it's hard to imagine anything positive coming from it. I'm not a person that subscribes to the idea that everything happens for a reason. I don't think that's true. I think that's lazy. Horrible things happen to good people and there is no reason for it. And I think if you need to come up with a reason, you're just trying to reconcile it for yourself 'cause it's so hard to face it -- that something like this could happen to good people that were just having a good time, that had nothing to do with this guy. It's not their fault. It's not fair and there is no making sense of it. So I'm not gonna demean it by trying to pass it off as well, there's a plan, you know, there's something, there's a reason. No, I'm not doing that. But you do have to try to move forward. You can't just live in the negativity.

And I'm not sure what that looks like right now in this moment. I mean, it's only been two weeks and I can't even imagine.

But I would hope one day, and I'm not the first to say this, a thousand people before me have said it way better, but what's it gonna take? How many times are we gonna have this conversation before there's some movement to make a change?

And that was part of the reason I wasn't even sure I wanted to say anything, but when I talked to my friend, he said, well, so what if everybody else has said it?

You haven't said it. And this is part of your process too, and you have your voice and you have every right to say whatever you want.

RLH: That's good. And I just, I also have to say, I think there is value in holding space for your experience. Period. End of story. Like that experience shared is -- that's enough in itself.

JJ: Yeah.

RLH: Even if there was no lesson, even if, and I think there are, and I think you've pointed to a lot of them here, but your experience and the fact that we have become so desensitized to this is an important connector to each other, I think.

JJ: Yeah.

RLH: You're embodying that. So thank you for doing that.

RETURNING TO SOUTHPORT TWO WEEKS LATER

RLH: You're also going back not to, not to the site itself, but you're participating in a benefit for the victims.

JJ: That's right. Um, so we already had a show planned for another venue there in town and it seemed like, to go back so soon, in the moment, I wasn't even sure I'd be able to do it. That was the first question was if I could actually go back and play that quickly -- just two weeks later. But then it also looked like an opportunity because it is so fresh for people and everyone is lost trying to see what they can do.

Like what's my part in it? How can I make something positive? And the community has all come together. They've already had other events and benefits for the victim's families and people affected.

That benefit has already taken place, but there are still ways to give. We’ll have links to those options on our website at encorepub.org.

RLH: Are you afraid?

JJ: I've had some moments. I've played a few shows since this happened and the very first time getting on stage felt very strange. And I've played my whole life and behind the drums is my comfort place. It's my safe space. It's where I'm most comfortable. And it was very strange to get on the drum set and feel uncomfortable just in a crowd and not knowing what was gonna happen around me. Um, but I got through it.

RLH: How does your wife feel about you going back to Southport to play?

JJ: Uh, she's coming to be my bodyguard. <laugh>. She supports it. She thinks it's also great and the fact that we decided to work with the venue to make it a benefit and help support the community and bring everyone together.

In fact, I have other friends from here in Wilmington that immediately jumped on board to come and getting people from Wilmington to drive to Southport is no easy task. So that means a lot <laugh>.

RLH: It certainly does. Yeah. I know that.

JJ: Yeah.

RLH: Is there anything, JJ, that we haven't talked about around this experience that you think it's really important people need to understand or think about, consider?

JJ: I just keep coming back to that human connection. And as I've been journaling, that has come out a lot in all of the things.

As I drill down the different parts of this and process all the different emotions, everything comes back to that. Whether it's the anger and the sadness or the relief and gratitude, it's all in that same soup.

MUSIC UP

And it's all about us being connected and we've gotta find a way to get back to that. That's really the key to the whole thing. And everything else is a detail.

We can work out all the other details. If we could just get back to that, then I think we stand a chance of figuring it out. At least, I hope so.

RLH: JJ Street, thank you for doing this.

JJ: Thank you.

To see a transcript of this interview or find out more about ways you can help in the healing and recovery process, visit encorepub.org

For encore, I’m Rachel Lewis Hilburn.